President Obama's Healthcare Speech

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:08 pm

Crissa wrote:However, the US used to have longer expected lives, why is that different than today?

Everything I've read has indicated the exact opposite.

In the United States, the 1900s were marked by a rather low life expectancy. About half of all children born in 1900 were only expected to live to reach the age of 50. Today, life expectancy has changed dramatically, as the average person (of any sex) in the United States is expected to live to be about 77 years old. While life expectancy increases in the 20th century are often attributed to a combination of nutrition, changes in overall public health, and advances in medicine, one factor stands out among all the rest. In the 20th century, the rate of infant death in developed countries decreased dramatically, which is responsible, in large part, for changes in life expectancy.

Life expectancy has been increasing in the United States in recent decades, resulting in welcome gains for individuals but higher costs for federal programs. Improvements in life expectancy at birth have occurred for both men and women and across races. Life expectancy at birth for men born in 2004 was 75.2 years, almost 10 years longer than men born in 1950. Life expectancy for women born in 2004 was 80.4 years, more than 9 years greater than for women born in 1950.

Count Arioch the 28th · Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:09 pm

I heard that it was projected that the next generation would have a shorter life expectancy due to the rising obesity rates, but it wasn't actually recorded yet due to it not happening until the future.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:16 pm

Shiritai wrote:Anyways, who pays for healthcare has little to do with the number of primary doctors, so I'm not quite sure why you brought that up.

Actually it has a lot to do with the number of primary doctors. This is true for a variety of services including education. If you have a source that is deliberately stingy and basically does not pay primary doctors enough money it not only discourages people from going into the profession but it encourages veteran doctors to consider early retirement. It’s not like anyone off of the street can become a primary doctor; it takes a lot of hard work, study, money, and patience. (I remember an interesting article on NPR about young doctors trying to decide between being primary doctors or specialists; one had chosen the latter because he wasn’t all that comfortable with extended dialogues with patients.) In addition, red tape can also lead to primary doctor frustration.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:27 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote:But that's not even true. They love the U.S. military, and the big government infrastructure that supports it, and the health care it provides for soldiers.

No we don’t. We don’t hate it, because it does provide a good service to those who fought in our nation’s many wars. But for those who are currently fighting our wars there are serious flaws and gaps in the system. The system is massively slow to respond to those problems. Sometimes, however, it’s like beating a dead horse.

The real power of the VA system is that there is always a supply of fresh veterans who have experienced the brutal nature of war and who are committed towards getting things done for their fellow veterans in spite of the flaws of the system. I was just looking at the following article in looking for filler for my Knights of Columbus Fourth Degree (the patriotic degree) Newsletter.

VA Suicide Prevention Program Adds Chat Service

The Suicide Prevention campaign of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is expanding its outreach to all Veterans by piloting an online, one-to-one “chat service” for Veterans who prefer reaching out for assistance using the Internet.

Called “Veterans Chat,” the new service enables Veterans, their families and friends to go online where they can anonymously chat with a trained VA counselor. If a “chatter” is determined to be in a crisis, the counselor can take immediate steps to transfer the person to the VA Suicide Prevention Hotline, where further counseling and referral services are provided and crisis intervention steps can be taken.

“This online feature is intended to reach out to all Veterans who may or may not be enrolled in the VA health care system and provide them with online access to the Suicide Prevention Lifeline,” said Dr. Gerald Cross, VA’s Acting Under Secretary for Health. “It is meant to provide Veterans with an anonymous way to access VA’s suicide prevention services.”

Veterans, family members or friends can access Veterans Chat through the suicide prevention Web site. There is a Veterans tab on the left-hand side of the Web site that will take them directly to Veteran resource information. On this page, they can see the Hotline number (1-800-273-TALK), and click on the Veterans Chat tab on the right side of the Web page to enter.

Veterans retain anonymity by entering whatever names they choose once they enter the one-on-one chat. They are then joined by a counselor who is trained to provide information and respond to the requests and concerns of the caller.

If the counselor decides a caller is in a crisis, the counselor will encourage the Veteran to call the Suicide Prevention Hotline, where a trained suicide prevention counselor will determine whether crisis intervention techniques are required.

The pilot program, which has been in operation since July 3, has already had positive results. In one instance, the online counselor determined that a Veteran in the chat required immediate assistance. The counselor convinced the Veteran to provide the counselor with a home telephone number and then remained in the chat room with the Veteran while the hotline staff called the number and talked to the Veteran’s mother. The hotline counselor worked with the Veteran’s mother to convince the Veteran to be admitted to a medical facility for further treatment.

Since becoming operational in July 2007, VA’s Suicide Prevention Hotline has received more than 150,000 calls, resulting in 4,000 rescues.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:21 pm

CatharzGodfoot wrote:So aside from being two-faced about state secrets, what are some examples of Obama lying?

Wow, I thought that the Count and Tzor would be all over this. Seriously guys, speak up!

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:40 pm

CatharzGodfoot wrote:Wow, I thought that the Count and Tzor would be all over this. Seriously guys, speak up!

Sorry, the presiden't many lies doesn't get me all excited. Let me fire up the Google and find something people can yell at me for.

Ah here it is Obama WTF

Obama WTF (What's The Facts?) is the original, and most comprehensive, authoritative site about the life, votes, and positions of freshman Senator Barack Obama and his political backers. As his campaign is based on words... not on a proven track-record... if his words are not supported by facts, there’s nothing left but an empty blue suit. No experience; no judgment; no integrity; NO Obama.

158 Obama claims he wrote letter to US Treasurer to try to prevent the housing crisis; but he acted only AFTER he had caused it by blocking McCain's bill
157 Obama claims he is bipartisan ; Congressional Quarterly shows he voted with his party 97% of the time
156 Obama's dirty lie scares seniors: falsely claims McCain plans to cut $880 billion from Medicare: liar liar liar says Annenberg Factcheck
155 Obama lies about his mother turning to food stamps AND still sending him to top schools; his grandmother paid for education
154 Obama lied about being asked to wear dead soldier's bracelet: family had asked Obama to stop wearing it
153 Obama claimed all new spending is economic plan was self-funding; short by $3.5 Trillion says nonpartisan Tax Policy Center
152 Obama denied Admiral Mike Mullen had called Obama's Iraqi troop plan "dangerous"; Mullen made comment on Fox in July 2008 according to WaPo
151 Obama lied about Kissinger's views of diplomacy during first debate; Kissinger confirms the lie
150 During Debate 1 Obama denied voting to tax some people making $42000 a year: Annenburg Factcheck,org confirms Obama is lying
149 After Debate 1, Team Obama denied Obama ever said, "Iran's not a threat": Video proves Obama DID say "Iran is NOT a threat."
148 Obama claims under McCain employers would be taxed on the health care benefits it grants to workers; he's lying
147 Obama refers to an Iraqi surplus of $79 billion and says US should have it; its $60 billion and dwindling
146 Obama claims only 5% of Americans would see tax increase; he's grossly understating the number of people effected
145 Obama accuses McCain of lying about Biden being against clean coal; video proves Obama is lying
144 Obama claims McCain is opposed to abortion in cases of rape or incest; McCain has never held that position.
143 Obama accuses McCain of making an ad about Obama's vote to approve leaving babies who survive abortion procedures to die; McCain did not make the ad
142 Obama's ad on abortion claims BHO always supported medical care to protect infants; text of the Bill he supported shows he wanted babies born alive after abortions to be left to die
141 Obama's ad on abortion uses quotes by journalists who made negative comments about a McCain ad; but Obama is misleading because both journalists have been proven to be incorrect
140 Obama's lying when he says McCain's ad misstated BHO's Sex Ed for Kindergartners Bill: McCain's ad was accurate; here's the Sex Ed Bill text
139 Obama and Biden both truncate McCain's comments on the strength of the economy's fundamentals: deliberate distortion
138 Biden claims McCain tried to hurt our veterans by denying them educational benefits; NewsWeek confirms Biden is lying
137 Obama claims under McCain, Elderly would have had Social Security tied up in the Stock market; Newsweek cries BS
136 Obama claims his opponent will cut social security in half: NOT true; Obama guilty of scare-mongering aimed at Seniors
135 Biden claims McCain wouldn't help small borrowers hurt by housing crisis; this is untrue according to Newsweek
134 Obama claimed during the primary he had more Ex President Clinton Foreign Policy advisers than Sen. Clinton; she had 70% more
133 Obama claimed his father served in World War 2: his Kenyan-born father never served
132 Obama grossly misquoted Sen.Clinton about her vote on a banking bill; BHO used the false quote to show why voters don't trust Government
131 Obama claimed employers are more likely to be struck by lightning than be prosecuted for employing illegals; Gov stats prove he's lying
130 Pushing his Green agenda Obama claimed Japanese Car average 45 mpg fuel efficiency; its actually around 29 mph
129 Obama disparaged the President saying he hadn't met with auto makers until the sixth year of his presidency; GWB met automakers in April 2003
128 Obama disparaged the efficiency of our healthcare system saying the U.S. spends twice per capita than other countries: WaPo proves he's lying
127 Obama claims President Clinton's Labor Secretary said BHO's healthcare plan, "Does more than anybody to reduce costs"; Robert Reich did NOT say it
126 Obama falsely claimed he won the Michigan Democrat primary: he was not on the ballot
125 Obama's Spanish language ad lies about McCain's position on immigration; tries to stir race-war: lies debunked by ABC
124 Obama lies about his interference in Iraqi negotiations; but his campaign admits his treachery
123 Obama took credit for the economic stimulus package passed in Feb 08; BHO's colleagues on Capitol Hill cry BS
122 Obama claims Big Oil is ignoring 68 million acres of oil fields they could be drilling; most fields are being worked
121 Obama claims never questions his opponent's patriotism; asks of McCain "WHICH country first?": ABC says he's questioning McCain's patriotism
120 Obama claims personal savings rates are lowest since the Great Depression; currently higher than under President Clinton
119 Obama claims on this video that he doesn't switch positions; list of 31 flip flops show he's lying
118 In the Primaries Obama puffed his resume claiming he was a "Professor"; State Senate bio shows he was not ; he now agrees
117 When Obama ran for US Senate his web site claimed "5 years as a community organizer"; he admits it was only 3 years
116 Obama's attack ad in Michigan claims McCain doesn't support loan guarantees for auto-industry. McCain DOES support them
115 Obama says "if we're STILL in recession when he takes office...etc"; the economy is NOT in recession
114 Obama claims he signed up for Selective Service when he graduated from High School; records show he did NOT until he'd been at college 1 year
113 Attacking Palin, Obama has the audacity to claim,"Words mean something; you can't just make things up "; BHO makes stuff up
112 Biden claims McCain will increase taxes for workers & Obama will only increase taxes on those making $435k: he's lying
111 Biden claims Obama drew the Nation's attention to problems at Walter Reed Army Hospital; it was two WaPo reporters that reported the issues to the Nation
110 to make Obama seems more American/less exotic, Biden tells Scranton crowd Obama grew up in Kansas; BHO grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia
109 Obama lies yet again to disparage Gov. Palin; ignores her executive experience as Governor of Alaska
108 Obama says the US economy has failed under Bush; World Bank stats proves Obama's been lying; US a world leader in growth, employment, incomes
107 Obama claims if you are born into poverty in America you are on your own: there are many government programs
106 Obama claims he's bi-partisan: voting records prove Obama is #11 most partisan
105 Claimed Hillary would be on anyone's short-list; Hillary wasn't on Obama's short-list
104 Obama claims abortion rates have not gone down under the Bush Administration; stats show they have gone down
103 Obama dismissed Bomber Bill Ayers as "some guy who lives in the neighborhood";they had a close working relationship
102 Obama claims there's no charge to attend his acceptance speech: CBS 4 in Denver proves he's lying; some tickets cost $1000
101 Obama used being a first-time-buyer to justify consulting with Rezko before he bought his house; BHO had already purchased a residence
100 Obama lies about his support for infanticide; campaign concedes in 03 he opposed a bill stopping the killing of kids born alive after abortions
99 Obama overstates Oil Industry's contributions to McCain; ignores cash the Oil industry gave BHO; Newsweek debunks
98 To belittle America,Obama exaggerated the growth in Debt under the current Administration; debunked by WaPo
97 Obama claims President George W Bush had not left the country before he became President; WaPo confirms he's lying
96 To promote "green", Obama claimed he drove a vehicle that uses ethanol; GM confirmed the model was NOT ethanol-ready
95 Obama claims he's taking his family for a week's rest in Hawaii with no campaigning; schedules a rally for first day
94: Obama claims "properly inflating tires" will save as much energy as we could drill offshore; analysis shows not even close
93 Obama denies accusing McCain of using race against him; ABC, NYT confirm Obama did accuse McCain of making racial attacks
92 Obama claims he's not being political when he's flip-flopping; timing & direction of major flip-flops show he's lying
91: Obama INVENTS a wall between Christians and Jews; deceptively omits the major religious wall is caused by a "fatwah" to kill American Christians and Jews
90 Obama claims he made a substantive call for Germany to help in Iraq; Berlin speech transcript proves he's lying
89: Obama admits he underestimated the decline in violence from the Surge; falsely claims McCain made same mistake
88 Obama turned a disappointing crowd of 20,000 into media reports of 200,000
87 Obama lied about his father's religious upbringing! half-brother confirms Obama's father was "RAISED Muslim"
86 Obama claimed we only made one fundraising trip to Florida during the Primary; Florida papers proved he lied
85 Claims reducing obesity to 80's levels would save Medicaid ONE TRILLION DOLLARS; not even close
84 To make Iraq/Afghan Wars look bad, Obama claimed demands on Nat Guard personnel hurt flood relief; Guards prove lying
83 Claimed due to overseas commitments, too few helecopters were available to help with Midwest flood relief; now concedes not true
82 Starting in Iowa, Obama claimed Clinton's healthcare plan would "punish families that couldn't afford healthcare"; NYT calls BS
81 Obama claims McCain's tax plan will do nothing to help the middle-class: The Tax Policy Center proves he's lying
80 claims the use of an Email with a big red DONATE button is NOT a fundraising solicitation
79 Obama claims his trip to Europe was non-political: uses video of Berlin speech to raise money within hours
78 Tells NBC that during the debate on the Surge he said the Surge would work in Baghdad; video proves during the debate he said the opposite
77 Obama's "Changing World" ad claims he'll fast-track alternatives to oil to stop us buying from hostile nations; "fast track" is totally misleading
76 Obama tells Israeli media that he's a member of the Senate Banking Committee; CNN confirms he's delusional
75 Obama claims Lou Dobbs caused hate crimes against Latinos to double; the FBI and CNN confirm Obama is lying
74 Obama claims the military brass think like he does; top US commanders say his plan for Iraq is unworkable
73: Obama promised to filibust FISA; later Obama voted for FISA and now denies changing his position
72 Obama belittles Americans claiming we can't speak European languages; he's talking merde; mierda; Scheiße
71 Obama denied he accused President Bush of starting the War for political reasons; Russert transcript proves Obama made that false claim
70 Obama claims there has been substantial job losses from NAFTA; Independent studies show its at least" job neutral"
69 Claimed in Feb 08 he got 90% of funds from donors giving $25, $50; fed filings show he got only about a third from donors below $200
68 Obama rewrites history about what specifically he had said during his October 2002 anti-war speech
67 Obama claimed in 04 that he had never supported bringing troops out of Iraq; rare video of 03 Teamsters rally shows he's lying
66 Obama lied about the softness of the Stock Market to support his false claim the War was being used to distract the public
65 To justify move to private funds, Obama claims McCain's campaign is" fuelled" by PACs and Lobbyists; its less than 2% of McCain's money
64 Obama's "Dignity" ad claims he "worked his way" thru college and law school; campaign admits only two summer jobs
63 Obama's "Dignity" ad gives him credit for reducing Welfare rolls by 80%: he's deceptive as he was opposed to Fed Welfare Reform in '96
62 In Obama's The Country I love ad, he takes credit for passing a healthcare bill he did NOT vote for
61 Claims he first ran in Chicago as an unendorsed candidate; his '96 election questionnaire proves he had several
60 Obama claims he wants a vigorous and open debate on the issues: then goes out of his way to avoid it
59 Obama omits key details about a false rumor re video of Michelle's "whitey" rant to justify breaking his public funding promise
58 Obama tries to deceive about why he voted "present" more than 100 times in the Illinois Senate; Chicago paper reveals the truth
57 Trying to claim patriotism Obama says his grandad signed up the day after Pearl Harbor; army records disagree
56 Claims race and party not important to how people vote as they put America first; 93% block vote disproves
55 On June 5, Obama stated that Israel must remain undivided; June 6 on CNN he reversed his position, but denied he had done so
54 To further his own agenda, Obama grossly overstates the number of potential African-American votes in MS, GA, SC
53 Promise of $2500 reduction in Healthcare premiums needs billions in Admin cost savings by 2012: not possible
52 Obama omits to mention his 3 week trip to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan until it slips out trying to out-do Clinton
51 Obama claims McCain wants to wage a lengthy war in Iraq: Video proves Obama's lying
50 Obama claimed he never prayed in a mosque; his campaign had to retract that statement
49 Obama dishonestly used endorsements in ads to pump up his healthcare plan
48 Claims he never discussed politics with Pastor; rebutted by photo of Obama with team of lobbyists led by Wright
47 Obama, an expert at parsing words, claimed he wasn't familiar with the word "Clintonian"; then changed his story
46 Despite reeking of cigarettes, Obama denied smoking to ABC; now admits smoking on MSNBC
45 Obama said he'd meet unconditionally with Leader of Iran: now claims he "didn't have Ahmadinejad in mind"
44 Obama claims he is using public financing to avoid special interests: WSJ nails his switcheroo
43 Obama's rhetoric claims more young black men in jail than college: BoJ Stats disprove
42 Claims he never said he was a proponent of single-payer universal healthcare; Video proves he did
41 Obama claims remarks to industrialists were greeted with silence, shows he can deliver tough message: video of ovation
40 Obamas claim you dont rip opponents & leave on roadside:he did to Alice Palmer
39 Obama denies saying Indiana could be tie-breaker: he did
38 Obama omits that Pastor Wright led divestiture campaign from Israel
37 Obama claims Church not controversial; he knew it was controversial since 86
36 Lied about intention of taking US out of NAFTA
35 Obamas claim poverty growing up: both distort reality
34 Obama denies meeting Saddam's Auchi; sworn Fed. witness places Obama at undisclosed party for Auchi at Rezkos
33 Obama lies about not attacking Clinton over her Bosnia lies
32 Obama claims he passed ethics reform; ABC News shows he lied
31 Obama says he's consistently opposed NAFTA; in October 2007 he supported expansion to Peru
30 Obama claims he's above dirty political tricks; Clinton proves he lies
29 Obama claims his "bitter" remarks were mangled; then repeats attacks on guns religion and angry people
28 Obama claims never said he wouldn't wear US flag-pin; video shows he did
27 Obama says he did no favors for Rezko;untrue; he lobbied for him
26 Changes story repeatedly re Rezko's help in buying mansion
25 Obama claims he never supported a ban on handguns; he has twice
24 Obama claims stays at UCC as Pastor acknowledged comments were inappropriate; Wright never made this statement
23 Campaign is beholden to "only the people" as unlike McCain/Clinton he does not take lobbyist /PAC money; LIES!
22 Claims campaign never called Canada to say Obama not truthful re wanting leave NAFTA; smoking gun memo proves lied
21 Mrs Obama admits she's never been proud of America; Video disproves Sen. Obama's later claim she was misquoted
20 Claimed would not run for President, as he would not be qualified by 2008: confirmed 3 times to Tim Russert in one 2006 interview
19 Claims famous in Il. for not letting lobbyists even buy him lunch; took from teachers, trial lawyers, hospital admins
18 Claims his parents met at Selma civil rights march; Washington Post noted it occurred 4 yrs after Obama's birth
17 BO claims courageously opposed war in 2002 during US Senate campaign; He did not announce his senate bid until 2003
16 Claims he passes tough Nuclear Law; NYT uncovers he took Nuclear Industry pay-off and watered down the bill
15 Claimed he didn't know Rezko was corrupt when did a real estate deal with him; Chicago papers prove he lied
14 Claims does not accept money from Big Oil: Real Clear Politics proves he lied
13 Denies using his Hopefund PAC to influence endorsers; but the Washington Post reviewed the record and disagreed
12 Claims his State Chair is not a drug company lobbyist; Time magazine cries Bullshit
11 Lies about how much he received in campaign funds from Rezko; forced to significantly increase the amount twice
10 Claims he did not fill out the 1996 candidate questionaire; Politico proves he lied
9 Took credit for achievement of others in Chicago; resume puffing exposed by LA Times
8 Claims he kept no State Senate records; now he changes his story
7 Denies doubling wife's salary was due to becoming US Senator; omits within months he earmarked $1 million for hospital
6 Denied meeting Saddam bagman Auchi; now admits he was at his dinner but does not remember talking to him
5 Denies using his church for politics: IRS disagree
4 Claims he was unaware of Pastor Wrights 911 comments: NYT proves he lied
3 Claims his father was a goat-herd; actually he was a man of privilige
2 Claims not an active muslim as child; Indonesian paper proves he lied
1 Claims father linked to Kennedys; Washington Post proves he lied

Obama WTF defines "DOCUMENTED LIE " as :

1) a statement by one or more reliable news agencies or credible authorities citing supporting verifiable facts which rebut a reported statement by Obama.
2) observable video/transcript contradictions
3) the omission of an important fact the exclusion of which defies common sense unless the intent is to deceive

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:49 pm

Really? A birther website? Damn, dude, do you just hate credibility?

shau · Post by **shau** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:40 pm

tzor wrote:
[*]158 Obama claims he wrote letter to US Treasurer to try to prevent the housing crisis; but he acted only AFTER he had caused it by blocking McCain's bill

Damn, up to this point I had not realized Obama was what caused the housing crisis.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:53 pm

Yeah, McCain was going to put a "Prevent housing crises" bill through, stamped with the Nurgle seal of approval and everything, but Obama rode in on his Disc of Tzeench and said "Oh no you don't!", setting fire to the bill. He then went on to personally cause the crisis. And went back in time to father himself in another country. With Stalin's wife.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:41 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote:Really? A birther website? Damn, dude, do you just hate credibility?

Credibility? I thought I was going for the humor value!

OK you were serious; so shall I be serious. GOPUSA TIME!

Obama's Lies About Government Bailout Plan
By Cliff Kincaid
January 5, 2009

Deception, Lies, and Fake Democrat 'Outrage'
Posted by Bobby Eberle
March 19, 2009 at 6:40 am

Obama Unaccustomed To Having His Lies Challenged
By Doug Patton
August 18, 2009

Washington's Lies
By Walter E. Williams
September 2, 2009

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:10 pm

I'm not saying everything there is lies or anything, but I'll bet GOPUSA is just a bit biased...

I prefer more mid-range stuff when researching stuff like this.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:11 pm

So the answer is yes, then.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:16 pm

tzor wrote: Credibility? I thought I was going for the humor value!

OK you were serious; so shall I be serious. GOPUSA TIME!

Wohoo!

tzor wrote:Obama's Lies About Government Bailout Plan
By Cliff Kincaid
January 5, 2009

So, I read the article and there was no mention of any actual lies made by B. Hussein. The only 'deceptions' are if B. Hussein doesn't believe in "liberal" economic theory.

tzor wrote:Deception, Lies, and Fake Democrat 'Outrage'
Posted by Bobby Eberle
March 19, 2009 at 6:40 am

That is a good example of dishonesty on the part of a great many politicians (including B. Hussein) and news outlets. After all, a lot of the AIG "bonuses" were just previously agreed on payments for cleaning up the mess--not big payments to those who had messed things up. That whole thing pisses me off.

tzor wrote:Obama Unaccustomed To Having His Lies Challenged
By Doug Patton
August 18, 2009

That's an interesting story, although it seems to claim that Obama has been calling us all Nazis, evil-mongers, and terrorists, without giving any citations. Do you know where that came from? It's almost unbelievable that B. Hussein calling us all Nazis wouldn't be all over the airwaves, and really indicates how far the liberal media goes to protect their idol.

tzor wrote:Washington's Lies
By Walter E. Williams
September 2, 2009

Huh, I had no idea that B. Hussein was making political lies back in 1936 and 1965. That guy sure has a history...
As far as the lies he's made more recently, it does seem unrealistic that Medicare would have its costs cut by 80%. Now, because nothing is cited we have no idea whether B. Hussein was actually saying that the cost of medicare would be cut so dramatically. But hey, let's give this newsman the benefit of doubt. Certainly he has no incentive to lie.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:09 pm

tzor wrote:
Crissa wrote:However, the US used to have longer expected lives, why is that different than today?
Everything I've read has indicated the exact opposite.

Longer than these other countries not longer than now. Geez, don't be totally dense.

-Crissa

PS, Count... My mother got welfare checks until I went to college. I've gotten and spent food stamps. I've couch surfed, and sat on the street, all but homeless. I've slept in a foster house as a child. Yeah, I don't have any serious trauma in my life and I was brought up as middle to upper-middle of my peer group, but never been poor? I literally don't have a silver spoon to my name.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:08 pm

Crissa wrote:Longer than these other countries not longer than now. Geez, don't be totally dense.

Oh, you mean compared to other countries.

They got better
We got McDonalds

P.S. Crissa you have an extra close quote tag.

PoliteNewb · Post by **PoliteNewb** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:40 pm

While we're on the whole "how to fix health care" subject...has anyone read this piece?

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care

Frankly, I think Goldhill makes some good points. I'd be curious at to others POVs.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:56 pm

If only other countries had something like McDonalds.

Like I don't know. McDonalds.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:50 am

PhoneLobster wrote:If only other countries had something like McDonalds.

Like I don't know. McDonalds.

First understand that McDonald’s is symbolic for all fast food joints and greasy spoons. Second, how many days of the week do you go to McDonald’s or a McDonald like burger joint? They line every food court in the U.S. They are the destination for high school juniors and seniors who have access to cars and permission to leave school for lunch. At the college levels only the “we deliver” pizza joints have more power over the student’s diet. There was a time in the U.S. when the “Big” Mac was considered “big.” Now it’s one of the smallest burgers on the fast food list. We supersize often (and McDonald’s can’t compare to 7-11’s “big gulp”). We even drive in and drive out, not even willing to walk the distance from the parking lot to the inside.

I don’t think you see that kind of use outside the U.S.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:28 am

tzor wrote:First understand that McDonald’s is symbolic for all fast food joints and greasy spoons.

If only we had such other fast food as well. Like KFC.

Like I don't know. KFC. Henny Penny, Red Rooster.

Or if only independent joints. Like fish and chip shops and smaller chains.

Like I don't know. Fish and chip shops, mustaffas, golden dragon, etc...

Or if only we had fatty fast foods you yanks would barely dream of some sort of... "meat" pie shop.

Like basically every bakery in the country.

If only those fatty fast food and big chain outlets lined food courts in this country.

Like they do in every food court in the country.

If only we had an incredible density for our population of "Pubs" that served fattening beer and more pies and chips and fried fat on a stick at nearly every street corner.

Like I don't know, pubs.

Why THEN maybe we would stop being so morbidly underweight and would no longer be cheating on health outcomes.

We even drive in and drive out, not even willing to walk the distance from the parking lot to the inside.I don’t think you see that kind of use outside the U.S.

We'll have drive-thru as soon as us filthy foreign savages learn to drive cars, unless we have both of those things already. I couldn't tell as I am too giddy from lack of fat in my diet.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:35 am

To be fair, South Australia has yet to discover the Internet. I'm connecting via smoke signals.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:37 pm

tzor wrote:
Shiritai wrote:Anyways, who pays for healthcare has little to do with the number of primary doctors, so I'm not quite sure why you brought that up.
Actually it has a lot to do with the number of primary doctors. This is true for a variety of services including education. If you have a source that is deliberately stingy and basically does not pay primary doctors enough money it not only discourages people from going into the profession but it encourages veteran doctors to consider early retirement. It’s not like anyone off of the street can become a primary doctor; it takes a lot of hard work, study, money, and patience. (I remember an interesting article on NPR about young doctors trying to decide between being primary doctors or specialists; one had chosen the latter because he wasn’t all that comfortable with extended dialogues with patients.) In addition, red tape can also lead to primary doctor frustration.

I heard that segment too. I'm curious what the average total student loans are for doctors when they finish their education. I'm sure it takes a while to pay off, but I didn't have too much sympathy when they complained about their average salary being only $173,000.

Count Arioch the 28th · Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:58 pm

Crissa wrote: PS, Count... My mother got welfare checks until I went to college. I've gotten and spent food stamps. I've couch surfed, and sat on the street, all but homeless. I've slept in a foster house as a child. Yeah, I don't have any serious trauma in my life and I was brought up as middle to upper-middle of my peer group, but never been poor? I literally don't have a silver spoon to my name.

Since none of this applies in any way to the thread, I'm sblocking it.

Assuming I believed any of that (I don't, I've caught you in too many lies to consider you credible), but if I did, be grateful that your mother didn't refuse food stamps and welfare because she didn't want to be a "welfare mom", be grateful that your mother didn't have severe, unmedicated bipolar disorder that could be tripped by almost anything (I dropped my dinner and said "Dammit" when I was 18 and she screamed at my brother and I for about three hours how we both treat her like our personal [EDITED], which devolved into throwing objects and incoherent noises), be grateful that you were "all but homeless" and not fully homeless, be grateful that you haven't received abuse from every single female in your life, from your mother to your wife to every girl you've dated. Be grateful that you aren't getting your electricity cut off next week and getting kicked out of your apartment next month because people can't stop stealing from you no matter how well you lock you shit up and you just can't find any more money after selling everything of value you own except your remaining textbooks (which you don't even have a complete set because most of them were stolen). Be grateful that you don't hear the constant shrill screaming of your mother and your ex wife in your ears constantly every time you lie down and rest even a second telling you how lazy and worthless you are, and you're just acting tired to get out of working. Be grateful that you weren't required to have vulcan-like control of your emotions because any sort of emotional display, whether good or ill was severely punished. Be grateful that you weren't sexually abused by your classmates and raped by your spouse on several occasions. Be grateful that you don't have to scream at the top of your lungs if you don't want to be ignored. Be grateful that you aren't in constant pain from old injuries. Be grateful that you can even afford your fucking organic food that you call me stupid for not eating (God, I'm so fucking hungry right now). Be grateful that you had the kind of supportive environment that allowed you the pompous sense of self-satisfaction that you project on a daily basis, even when you have no clue what you're talking about.

Meikle641 · Post by **Meikle641** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:42 pm

Keep on trucking, Count. Brofist.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:57 pm

PhoneLobster wrote:If only we had an incredible density for our population of "Pubs" that served fattening beer and more pies and chips and fried fat on a stick at nearly every street corner.

There is no Guinness Emoticon … what am I to do?

Don’t get me started on this. No seriously, don’t let the ex-Reuters guy from across the pond get started on the institution of the “Pub.” I go from high praise to … well whatever is worse than high praise. I stand with Mr. Franklyn, “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

I will, any day, defend good beer over corn syrup sweetened cola products any day of the week. Yes, I, defender of the John Harvard’s, of the Long Ireland Brewing Company, of the Blue Point Brewing Company, of the Brooklyn Brewery. Coca Cola is simply evil.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:00 pm

Koumei wrote:To be fair, South Australia has yet to discover the Internet. I'm connecting via smoke signals.

It could be worse: Pigeon transfers data faster than South Africa's Telkom